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MassamottoSan

Necessity Vs Want

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I have attached a document that outlines my issue with a problem I feel is present in the current form of DayZ that we have. Please read it if you have the time and let me know your opinions on the subject.

 

Hostile RP and the issue of necessity V.S. want

Hello, today I would like to talk about a topic that has been on my mind for a while. There is a big problem with Hostile RP and the reasoning behind people doing it. In this paper I will go over a few topics including: “The food problem, what I think can be done to solve this problem, and some counterarguments people have for my point.

            The first thing I would like to go over is the food problem I believe is present in DayZ. Whenever you think about an apocalypse it is usually hand in hand with starving people, and the lack of infrastructure that we have all become dependent on, as of the onset of modern technology. This is not present in the game even though full control of it is available. Even at a year into the outbreak you can still find cans of food and drinks like they are candy. This leads to the problem of people not running into the survival situations that make post-apocalyptic scenarios so fun to roleplay. You will find that there is a never-ending supply of food that causes a lack of necessity and conflict in relation to people starving to death. In the end of the day you are not robbed because you have food and someone doesn’t, how generally apocalypse scenarios go down. You are robbed because they like your gun or your shirt, or you said something that offended them. This leads to hostile RP being very shallow and lacking, as the reasoning behind a robbery is not the necessity of food but the want to rob someone for the fun of it.

            The second thing I would like to talk about it how this issue could be solved. I feel that if the loot table was tweaked to slowly phase out canned food and drinks spawning, people would be pushed into farming and hunting far more than they are currently. In extension this would allow far more RP within compounds and large trade hubs as people would be forced to enter these areas to get food and water. In the end we cannot all be nomadic in nature as in a real-life scenario it simply would not be sustainable. I feel that people focusing on finding and keeping sustainable sources of food would provide an outlet to avoid the drama and toxicity that comes from having everything you would ever need. At the present moment the surplus of food does not make survival hard and in a roleplay situation based entirely around survival and the stories included in it, there is no survival other than gun fights and unlucky zombie spawns.

            The last thing I would like to touch on is a couple of counter-arguments. I understand that a system like this might be hard for new players. But I will ask this question. How much better would it make it to find a hunting rifle and how much would you be willing to do to keep your access to food. This would progress roleplay for new players entering the community as they would be immediately in a survival situation with real threat. Another argument I have heard is for current compounds and keeping a supply of food within them. I have heard people mention that they don’t think this would be a good idea because it could destabilize the RP infrastructure already in place. I will counter this by saying that a focus on farming and hunting to get more food to a compound would provide a large amount of roleplay.

            In conclusion, I feel that a decrease in the spawning of canned food, that at this point in an apocalypse would not be present, would greatly increase roleplay situations that could come from it. At its present state this community has no reason to worry about physical needs such as hunger and thirst and in the lack of direction caused by this drama and in-fighting are the only directions to go. I would like to plead that a change be made to further progress the RP that is present here and to allow more depth in its place.

 

 

 

Edited by MassamottoSan (see edit history)

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I totally agree with the food problem. The amount of canned food you can find ingame makes it nearly impossible to starve. It is also really unrealistic to have so many cans left after days and days of people looting. Same for guns actually but thats another topic.
Although a fresh spawn will have a big problem to stay alive if we adjust the food spawn too much. My Suggestion: make a fresh character spawn with some food so he is safe for the first moment. Gives him the actual time to find what is needed to secure his food economy. That way we prevent new spawns to annoyingly die because of unlucky spawns or whatever. 

Food should play an important role for everyone. Doesn't matter if hostile RP or hero RP or anything else. It is the apocalypse and the lack of food should be real and aknowledged by everyone.

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+1. These have also been issues in other communities. Remember that DayZ patch where food was, like, impossible to find? Looking back, it actually made the game a whole new level of challenging. Loot tables definitely need to be tweaked and to my understanding it is coming. It can help bring a whole new dynamic and challenge. Instead of events related to guns and shit, imagine a food supply drop. Id kill for that [literally].

Guns as well....MY PERSONAL thought is to have them spawn in decreasing order like this: ammo>magazines>guns and then gun spawns like this: civilian guns>native Chernarus/Russian guns>NATO guns. Make NBC suits more rare too!!

Another point is to maybe spread out military locations a bit. Add the mod that brings back old Balota and maybe even have a larger military camp/check point/ whatever in an area with less military population. Maybe itll help spread rp out if higher tier loot spawns are more dispersed. 

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In looking for solutions to this problem, we must think on how complex the proposed solution is to the (community) developers. I'm sure @Aeryes and @Sebbepwnyou can back me up on this.  Going in and changing spawn rates of certain items is one thing.  Changing the map is something else entirely.  It would indeed be recommended to keep it a bit simple, at least in the short run.

Reduce canned food spawns, or eventually remove them altogether, so that the only way to get food is to hunt, farm, or eat people. 🤡  Winter is coming.  Whilst sheep, goats, and cows would be alive and well during that climate, the deer and rabbits would be hibernating, so maybe we can do something with that, just so long as we remember to fix it when spring arrives.  I can also do some research on if any of the produce we have here would be able to grow in this region during winter climates, however we could also (temporarily) reduce or remove the effectiveness of farming.

If you reduce weapon spawns, you're going to have problems of the larger groups hoarding weapons, and then the loot tables will be fucked.

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+1 we need to bring back some survival aspects through game mechanics. I for one think the food and drink decay rate is too slow currently as well. I never feel any urgency to find food or water unless I am a fresh spawn or just ran halfway across the map. Winter is coming so I hope a snow storm blows through as well 😉

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The real problem is people let mechanics, spawn rates and overall game dictate their roleplay. Just because food is everywhere doesnt mean someone cant play a starving bandit.  People need to look beyond their pixels on the screen, and adapt their roleplay to be entertain others and not themselves.  People make their own problems. 

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21 hours ago, MassamottoSan said:

hostile RP being very shallow and lacking, as the reasoning behind a robbery is not the necessity of food but the want to rob someone for the fun of it

I like that saying right there

I would love to see where a farmer / hunter professions move on from strictly RP to an actual driving force behind everyone's survival. Imagine if you get robbed and they take all of your food and water but let you keep your guns (sans ammo) and now you have to figure out what the fuck to do as opposed to simply planning for a trip to nwaf.

I don't know, to me food and survival aspect is extremely appealing to dayz and will take some time for it to get balanced. It should be lowered by a lot in loot table tho. 

7 hours ago, Loscham said:

If you reduce weapon spawns, you're going to have problems of the larger groups hoarding weapons, and then the loot tables will be fucked.

I agree. I think ammo is what should be reduced and not the guns themselves. I remember some apocalypse book I was reading a while back and protagonist makes a comparison with every shot fired from his rifle at a zombie as a cash register sound instead of gunfire. I'm probably butchering this comparison, but I think you get the point.

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You'd have to overhaul the whole food economy for anything to change. I don't remember the last time I ate canned food in game. I can run up to a fruit tree and grab five pears and four apples. I could also just plant some food and fill a whole box with peppers in like 30 minutes. Taking canned food out and sodas won't really do anything, and dying of hunger would be more annoying then fun. I don't want to play some hardcore survival game. I just don't see how it would improve role play, because hostile RP is a mindset and a style. 

And like Incognito said, the mindset is up to the player. If you take the abundance of food out of the game it won't really change the mindset of people when it comes to hostile RP. The robbery might be more food motivated, but it won't really change up the interaction in terms of quality. It's up to the player to chose how creative they want to be with their reason of initiation. They could initiate on you for a 'shallow' reason like "I like your shirt. Give it to me or die." or they could be creative. I mean you would have some initiations like "I'm hungry. Drop your food or die." Seems like the same shallow RP to me. People might just snag your food while they are robbing you and not even mention it. What I'm trying to say is that it's up to the player to be a better role player and initiate on people for unique reasons. --- Lemme give you an example (You run down to some alone guy and immediately start being hostile. You claim he looks like the man who abducted his daughter, and you initiate on him for that reason. You find out he's not the person and breakdown in tears because you can't find your loved one. You apologize and let the man go and run off.) Sounds alright? I don't know. Or you could have this one --- (You run down to a man who's alone. You start to bandit shuffle, just in case he tries anything funky, right? Then you say "Hey man... Nice gun there... AKM right? Drum mag too? Nice man... Initiation" you take his AKM and perhaps torture him a bit in the woods. Then you let him go.) So which situation sounds better? I like number one, and it did not involve food. It doesn't have to involve food to be good/decent hostile RP. Just be creative with your reason. It's all up to the role player. 

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I think this thread is implying that hostile RP is only based on gear or the need/want for gear. This is not the only point of hostile RP. You would only be making things harder for yourself by having to survive harsher conditions plus hostile RP as making the conditions harsher will not get rid of hostile RP in the way you think it will. If you want something else to be robbed for, this is the way to do it.

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So I'm going to put my two cents in on this one. I do agree that after a time food supplies would be limited, but keeping in mind that the lore currently has the infection crisis at less then a year old, there would still be a fair amount of food around.

Most disaster scenarios will see people stockpiling and preparing to 'hold out'. Some stores, generally large ones, will carry between 40,000 to 50,000 different items, then add more to that in the total amount as you break it down to individual items which would bring the number up to hundreds of thousands.

Now we know Chernarus isn't that wealthy a place and does have a lower population, but again, the population Post Outbreak is estimated to be 2,500 down from the Pre Outbreak population of approximately 3.5 million. So if you had 1 can of food for every person that would be 3.5 million laying around for a single day.

I would love to see as time went by the gradual decline of prepared food availability for sure and see more people become dependant upon hunting, fishing and farming OR seeking out those who have supplies and develop RP from there be it hostile or otherwise.

As for comments made concerning hostile RP and the reasons behind it, keep in mind that people are living in a now lawless society and are predisposed to have behaviour they may have never indulged in prior due to the consequences of their actions. Those consequences are no longer around (law enforcement). So your going to encounter those who are hostile and will point a gun at you for something you may be wearing simply so they can indulge in that new found freedom of flexing control over another persons life simply because they can. It happens all the time in our day to day lives even with consequences.

Edited by Chaostica (see edit history)

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5 hours ago, Frosto said:

I can run up to a fruit tree and grab five pears and four apples.

Where the fuck you lookin', mate? I scour a massive apple orchard and find NOTHING. 😛 🤣

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7 hours ago, Loscham said:

Where the fuck you lookin', mate? I scour a massive apple orchard and find NOTHING. 😛 🤣

Not there hahahahaha. I usually find them on lone trees. They seem to spawn in certain areas. It’s really odd. 

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I know with good winter is pretty much here and we gotta stop just having food plentiful maybe just lessen it a little bit because eventually the food has to run out. But with weapons I mean I think spawn rate is fine because there’s so many military bases around that they would have stockpiles. 

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I think that by a year in, most of the canned food would indeed be gone. By this point, survival would start to become more of a challenge. To be honest, I would support fully removing canned food and soda from the loot table entirely.  Plastic bottles/milk bottles/liquor bottles etc should still be available as they're pretty necessary to survival as far as game mechanics go. However, when it comes to sating one's hunger, by this point in the apocalypse, the only viable options that should be available would be:

  • Hunting
  • Fishing
  • Farming
  • Cannibalism

Yes, even mild-mannered Loscham suggests cannibalism.  Without going into the debate on right and wrong, think of it from an RP standpoint.  If you were anything but a hunter or fisher or farmer before the apocalypse, there's no guarantee that you know how to do any of those things.  How to get food?  Well, there's a dude with his back to you.  Easy meal.  Granted everyone knows the game mechanics for hunting/fishing/farming, but does your character?

Just some food for thought (terrible pun entirely intended).

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